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Talk:Happy New Year 2007/Guide
__TOC__ Do I understand right that you can only get the second reward if you have a Airship Pass? Syntic 13:18, 1 January 2007 (EST) :Yes, I believe that is the case as far as I know. It's a bit unfair, but leave it to Square-Enix to do something like that. Now, the thing I'm wondering is how to get the +1 version of the Battledore if there is one at all. :--Atlas 16:28, 1 January 2007 (EST) ::I can understand some parts of these events being only for those that have been around for some time. So I'm not to disapointed that I can't get the second reward with any of my characters. However I do feel it is important to know what things for an event are realy ment for those people that have been around for a while and what parts are ment for anyone that might have a character during the event. ::--Syntic 23:35, 1 January 2007 (EST) Once it is found out what the Moghancement: Money does we will know if it was a good idea that new characters can't complete this part of the quest. It's possible they did this so there are not a bunch of mules with it.--Sidmow 17:36, 3 January 2007 (EST) I'm still left wondering about the Gold Brugards that I saw running around with the Wood Brugards... is it only the Wood Brugard that will give you a reward? --Rosalie, Seraph, 19:00, 1 January 2007 (EST) :The animals for each year are chosen to be similar to the Chinese zodiac, but the Chinese astrology also places great importance on the five elements (Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth). This year, starting sometime in February, will be the year of the Wood Pig, those the Wood Bugard is the key player (and Gold is probably just a replacement for Metal). --Samsara 20:05, 1 January 2007 (EST) Am I the only one who thinks this event is a bit creapy? The whole "Call me Grandpa and do whatever I say" reaks of pedophilia, and the "swining" thing... well we can see the meaning in that. And paddles? SE... the Christmas event was nonsensacle, and this one is creapy. Please consult translators to do a better job of translating these events. --Tarage 20:38, 1 January 2007 (EST) :maybe your the only one with a sick mind that jumps to conclusions. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar....pervert.--Sidmow 21:29, 1 January 2007 (EST) :He is not the only one who found it perverted. Me and several others independently came to this conclusion and told each other and laughed about how we were thinking the same thing. Karthal 01:29, 2 January 2007 (EST) Odd glitch: ex items The same glitch seems to work again, when I trade a ex item like Beastman Seals, Choccobo whistle, AF items, etc. I would not loose the items I traded, but I would still get the message and buff from the New Year NPCs. I haven't gotten the new year's gift this way though. --Devious 00:50, 2 January 2007 (EST) Hypothisis: Sweets I forget where I heard this, probably GameFAQs, but it seems that trading candy to these 'pigs' gets the item. I'm not able to verify this, outside that I only got the new years item when I traded a Black Puding. Intresting? --Tarage 01:48, 2 January 2007 (EST) I got the gift item tradeing a Silent Oil this year. (not to say sweets may not be a better way just shareing)--Devious 02:50, 2 January 2007 (EST) It has also been obtained with either a land crab meat or ginger cookie(if it was the ginger cookie, it would support sweets), I don't remember which. Unfortunately, the present was used instead of being turned in. Personally, I have been trying to get the present and been unsuccessful with ginger cookies, land crab meat, wooden arrows, bream sushi.. I've traded over 200 wooden arrows.. I've no luck. Karthal 13:47, 3 January 2007 (EST) As with all "trade" events, most of the time they want different items, rather than the same item over and over. I kept trading different items, a knife, one crystal here, another crystal there, a cheap food item I had, an echo drop, and I finally got mine when I traded the echo drop. Just try different types of items and hope for the best. --Chrisjander 13:51, 3 January 2007 (EST) :I got my first from a Moorish Idol, second from a Honey and third from an Earth Crystal. --Samsara 13:53, 3 January 2007 (EST) :I had tried the wooden arrows because someone on my server said he had spammed them(since they were cheap and stackable) and gotten a present. I have also farmed the areas the bugards are in and tried trading those items as well. Still no luck. Karthal 14:11, 3 January 2007 (EST) :I think it's completely random. All of the successful items listed above are consumeable items, but even those aren't necessary. My brother got his on the third try by trading a Bone Hairpin. I got mine after dozens of attempts (cookies, feathers, necklaces, etc.) and finally got one after trading a cotton cloth. --Lunarcurtain 19:42, 5 January 2007 (EST) :I agree that it's random. I got two by trading fish (dark bass, took three or four each time) and two by trading colibri feathers (on the third trade each time). --Khadijah 01:10, 7 January 2007 (EST) Regarding Dyire's Guide Reference I have to comment on the recent addition of the external link to Dyire's event guide. I didn't write the original version of this event guide, however any additions and changes I made to the guide were done based on my own personal experience with the event, and I actually have not even seen Dyire's guide for this particular event until now. If the original version of this guide was indeed based on Dyire's guide, then by all means reference the external link. However, much of what the guide has evolved into isn't necessarily copied from any outside source. As weird as it may seem, there are actually people who go and figure out the events for themselves. :\ --Briela 16:46, 4 January 2007 (EST) :I reverted his additional link. I created this article, I didn't even know Killing Ifrit had a guide about this, due to the fact, that I don't visit Killing Ifrit. The original version of this article was not based on Dyire's guide (but rather on my own for my Linkshell, which I don't link since it is in a different language and not notable enough as a ressource). (Could we move this section to the bottom of the talk page, newer information is usually placed there. I didn't even see this section and had to look for it with the history tab.) --Samsara 16:54, 4 January 2007 (EST) :moved ^^ --Briela 17:00, 4 January 2007 (EST) ::Ah, thanks. Far better down here (Sorry, I dabbled in Wikipedia, some thing here sometimes seem very weird to me.) --Samsara 17:02, 4 January 2007 (EST) ::It's okay, new discussion is supposed to be on the bottom. --Chrisjander 17:26, 4 January 2007 (EST) I concur with both of you, I'll take Samsara's word that he didn't copy it for a couple of reasons. # I don't have a good reason not to. # With previous year's New Year events, this one isn't exactly a brain teaser to figure out. --Chrisjander 17:26, 4 January 2007 (EST) I'm fairly new to the Wiki system of editing, so advanced apologies for any incorrect syntax of editing that may come up. My guides have become very popular since my first one that was created for the winter event 3 years ago, I believe. Since then, people have been spreading them like wildfire when they are created. I have no problems with that, because the reason I started to write these guides were to help fellow players out with the special events. However, there has always been trouble of people taking credit or not issuing credit to myself and the fellow posters who helped me create the guide. Of course, other people may write similar guides for the event, so I take a slight effort in making unique "marks" of writing style in each guide that allows me to distinguish it, even if it was plagiarized. This, I admit, is not a solid method of distinguishing copied vs. original creation, but it does slightly help. For this particular guide, I wrote it in a Step-By-Step style, rather than presenting all the information in a general form first then specifying further, later on, for particular points on the event. If you look here (http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=2919196#2919196), you can see the guide was created on the 31st of December. Whats interesting though is one part of the guide that I added early on, which is the "Other things you may receive from the Wood Bugard" section. At first, I didn't intend to even put that in, because it was not particularly useful nor were people who were reading the guide interested in it. I put it in anyways, just to help flesh out the guide while it was still being written and half-updated. I just realized that the section I was just talking about was added in later by a different user, who basically just copy and pasted it word for word. I'll cut my long winding message short, since I don't think it flows very well. (Joys of having a cold :)) My guides are often spread without giving credit and it slowly gets changed slightly. I'm just a little angry that people don't credit the author and spread it as their own, or just rip all the information from my guide to write another without a citation at least. It has happened on many occasions, and was not fixed until someone else confronted the poster. No ill will is meant to others who find a unlabeled version of my guide and use it to help others. That is all. ---- It has already been established that this was not taken from your guide. The majority of guides on ffxiclopedia are written in step-by-step style, and after comparing the two, and hearing the testimony from the original author, I see no plagiarism here. --Chrisjander 01:19, 5 January 2007 (EST) ---- Any plagerism statements/accusations/concerns should be directed to User:Mierin @ User talk:Mierin. --Nynaeve 01:23, 5 January 2007 (EST) : I had a long-winded response in which I proved that the guide was original work and not copied from Dyira's guide, except for the list of zones and bonus effects (which have subsequently been expanded upon by other wiki posters), but this site froze and wouldn't post it this morning. I'll repost it tonight. The long and the short of my statement is: :# The walkthough of this guide was not pulled from Dyira's guide :# The list is not original work and does not need to be credited :# However, a link to Dyira's guide as an additional source on this material may be added --Mierin 09:22, 5 January 2007 (EST) :Why should we add a link to his guide? We somewhat established, that the guide was not the source for our article. It is has no more information than we have. If we would need a link to the same information just in other words, we should link to a page that doesn't advert Powerleveling and Gil selling. And if we start linking to one guide, why not all the others out there, too, containing the same information. --Samsara 10:37, 5 January 2007 (EST) ::As will be explained when I give my detailed explanation later today, I'm not saying it has to be added. What I'm saying is that if Dyire wan'ts to add the link to his/her guide as an additional reference guide, that is fine. That does not mean it is a source. The wiki isn't the end all and be all of all the information on the net (Though we are trying to do that). The idea of the wiki is to provide people with as much information as possible either through additions to articles, or links to offsite articles. I don't want to deny FFXIclopedia users of information, solely because we decided to be territorial. --Mierin 13:08, 5 January 2007 (EST) ::I wouldn't mind the adding of a link to another guide, but I find the source questionable. KI does advertise Powerleveling and Gilselling. I think we should not link to such a page as a source of information. --Samsara 13:46, 5 January 2007 (EST) ::Mierin, you do not need to re-upload your detailed explanation, I understand now. (Although I do thank you for taking the time to write an encompassing reply.) While I'm not quite sure on the specifics of plagiarism or anything related when focused on "lists" of information, I can see that the rest of the article would be (and is) a fair case of anyone's original write up. It can be seen that, if there was a case of copying of information explicitly from a separate guide, it was not done in this instance. Since this is the case, I do not mind whether or not my guide is linked to as another reference guide. I was only concerned of a possible case of plagiarism and not receiving proper credit in such an event. As a side note, I would like to ask Samsara something. If a source of information is truly valid and helpful, does it matter whether or not the host site has advertisements against your tastes? Just because my guide is in Killing Ifrit, does it makes it void of any valid material? Any information that is found on a forums website, within a discussion of individuals, is not eligible of being a source because they decided to happen to post at a particular site? Like Mierin said, the "idea of the wiki is to provide people with as much information as possible," not to selectively show other sources of information that originate on sites some users do not like, for reasons unrelated to the article. --Dyire 15:20, 5 January 2007 (EST) :::Yes, where it is hosted matters very much. A site such as this has some gravitas as a reliable source and being partially endorsed by SE. As you may have noted, FFXIclopedia is the first link they'll show you on the community pages, it is the only Recommended page (Killing Ifrit doesn't rate one link). And as such we should not link to a site that so carelessly and blatantly advertises for things against the TOS, things that for a long time now have been complained to ruin the game, things SE actively tries to combat. :::The framework of a source is extremely important. The shady advertisment casts doubt on the site itself and possible information it has. Gilselling and such can get you banned afterall. And how far would you trust a text about (forum or otherwise) about the safety of nuclear energy when right on top a company associated with generating nuclear energy has placed an advertisment? What would you think, if FFXIclopedia linked to a great guide in a forum, which has sex ads? What would you say, if the first thing appearing on a site we link to, would be an advertisment on how to make bombs? :::I do think that FFXIclopedia should distance itself from pages that are clearly advertising breaches of the TOS, a link here is in a way an endorsment of the site, there should be some standards of what kind of sites we link, too.--Samsara 17:08, 5 January 2007 (EST) ---- My detailed response from this morning: A review of the history of edits shows the following: # The initial work by Samsara appears to be original work. # The Revision as of 09:25, 2 January 2007 by Xeo appears to be a cut and paste from Dyire's guide. #* However, this cut and paste job appears to be only the list of zones and the list of buffs. #* At this time, the actual walkthrough appears to remain Samsara's work. # Subsequently thereto, other editors added additional zones to the list, and additional buffs. # The guide was then reformatted by Briela on January 3rd. The reformatting of the walkthrough looks nothing like Dyire's walkthrough. # In its present state, the guide walkthough appears to be nothing like Dyire's guide and throughout the entire process appears to be original work except for the copying of initial lists. In short, this does not appear to be copied or even derived from Dyire's guide. It is possible for different guides to be developed independently of each other. Dyire's guide is therefore not a source and does not need to be credited. Lists of items are not "original work," and do not need to be cited. An author only has copyright over the creative expression of a list. However, links to additional sources of information are not inappropriate additions to the wiki, and if Dyire would like to add a link to her guide, it should remain. --Mierin 17:53, 5 January 2007 (EST) :And, it should be noted that the opinions of Samsara do not reflect the opinions of the FFXIclopedia, its staff or the site owner with regards to sources and citations. That is a conversation for a different place and time. --Mierin 17:53, 5 January 2007 (EST) got gift by trading meds After trading a few stacks of crystals, one crystal at a time, I ran out of crystals. I tried trading shihei and fish broths with still no luck. Then I got the New Year Present from trading an echo drops, but I goofed and chose the first option when I returned to the event NPC. Incidentally, he didn't mention Fenrir, he gave me a different reading involving Leviathan instead. So I went back with more crystals, and a few other odds and ends. The bugard took a sickle, a hatchet, and more crystals. It did NOT take a goblin armor or a grass thread; I don't think it took the shihei either. It gave me another present when I gave it an eye drops. The common factor seems to be that the items it takes are expendable: crystals, food, and meds, so maybe fireworks and scrolls as well.